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Asked: Nov 13 '13 at 06:24

Seen: 1,101 times

Last updated: Nov 21 '13 at 04:21

Given the strength of feeling by some against the profanity scanner, here is what I am prepared to do:

  • As I've said, I'm not willing to allow offensive language on Inward Quest. However, I am prepared to turn off the profanity scanner if those who have strong feelings against it are willing to do something for the community in return. I would be looking to those individuals to step-in themselves and remove offensive language from the site when it happens and then talk either online (or offline from Inward Quest) with the individuals concerned to ensure it does not recur.

  • I would expect any contentious possible actions (or deliberate lack of action) to be raised and discussed openly here on Meta so a general consensus can be reached on what is an appropriate course of action (or deliberation lack of action)

  • I'm willing to run with this approach for a trial period to see whether self-policing is workable long-term. If it isn't workable, the scanner will be back for good.

    Any comments, suggestions, volunteers?


UPDATE ADDED - NOV 21, 2013

I've given a lot of thought about how to handle the profanity issue on Inward Quest.

Relying on a few members to deal with this is not going to be a long-term solution because there are no guarantees that any member will stay with the site indefinitely or want to do this task indefinitely. And we do not have enough volunteers to fill the gaps.

I also do not see that allowing high-karma members to police their own profanity is a viable solution since profanity is profanity regardless of how many karma points someone has and I'm not prepared to allow it on Inward Quest.

Instead I'm going to be more flexible with whitelisting words that are rarely used in an offensive/aggressive manner. I will be creating a thread on Meta for these words to be suggested for whitelisting.

Regarding those who think profanity is a "free speech" issue, let me remind you that you are accessing a private website that I own and fund personally. You do not pay taxes to me. You have not elected me. You do not even pay to access the website. You have no more right to "freedom of speech" on Inward Quest than any stranger who you invite into your home and then behaves in a manner that you not deem appropriate towards you or those you know. In those cases, I think you would be asking them to leave or else have them removed from your home. You would not be saying they have a right to "free speech".

Furthermore, there has never been non-offensive "free speech" on Inward Quest; people can ask a question about a concept in the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance," and that's perfectly on-topic, but asking how to change the tyre on your motorcycle is not, and never was. And yet, you still have far more freedom on Inward Quest than you could reasonably expect on any Stack Exchange site - Inward Quest originated from the Stack Exchange community.

You have to realize that while you have far more freedom on Inward Quest than many similar sites, that freedom is not unlimited. Every garden has weeds; no gardener leaves the weeds because they have a right to unlimited freedom of expression. If they do that, the weeds eventually take over the garden.

I am now closing this thread.

asked Nov 13 '13 at 06:24

Simon%20Templeton's gravatar image

Simon Templeton ♦♦
2.2k172242

edited Nov 21 '13 at 04:21

1

Sure Simon, I'll do my part.

(Nov 13 '13 at 16:31) ele

You know, I made all these suggestions prior to your election to use profanity scanning software.

(Nov 13 '13 at 22:58) ele

I've already expressed my willingness to do my part in questions and answers. But how would you have us deal with comments? I can't do anything about comments without moderator privileges.

(Nov 14 '13 at 13:29) Vesuvius

@Vesuvius " I can't do anything about comments without moderator privileges." We could gently suggest the member edit his comment. Usually at least one other member is on line. As for older comments; perhaps it would be a good time to nix the hour rule in regards to editing comments. AS for comments made by users who are no longer around - IDK - perhaps a delete feature if warranted or 1 or 2 impartial members will need mod privileges.

(Nov 14 '13 at 16:51) ele

@ele do you still have problem with the profanity thing? you want me as a mod? can we understand each other because if I tell you the truth and you believe me not then that you give me any title that you want it will not change anything. communication in every relation between 2 person is the basic. with out this there is not much that one can do. I have 15 year experience in security so it should not be to hard.

(Nov 14 '13 at 18:48) whitetiger

@ele: Some folks, for whatever reason, seem especially invested in their words. I've done moderation before, and the first thing I learned is that you don't bother asking.

(Nov 14 '13 at 19:01) Vesuvius

@Vesuvius often people react bad when they are treated bad or think that someone is unfair to them. but I agree with you that some are lost and will be bad what ever you do with those people sometime you need to take other action, yet it is not your choice for them to be that way. they are responsible of their choice.

(Nov 14 '13 at 19:07) whitetiger

@Vesuvius Appears I misunderstood. You & Simon are talking about an official capacity as a profanity mod. That would be different. Thanks...

(Nov 14 '13 at 19:37) ele

@white tiger No, I have NO issues with profanity. No, I don't want you to be an official moderator - you do that for a living & you should be able to relax when on IQ. I was confused earlier & not on the same page at all. Vesuvius cleared it up. Thanks.

(Nov 14 '13 at 19:42) ele

@ele I am totally relax, it is in your mind @ele. and no I do not do that for a living. and you do not want me for official moderator it is your choice then why ask me yesterday? yes I see that you are confuse and sometime not on the same page that is why I talk with you and explain more.

(Nov 14 '13 at 19:55) whitetiger

@white tiger you said this "I would not mind volunteering but I am going to sleep soon." I thought you were volunteering and I thought you would be better at being a mod then editing. I did NOT realize Simon was speaking about an official position which would mean you would need to be good at both. If you want to apply, please do. I don't care. I'm leaving now -- you have a good night ok.

(Nov 14 '13 at 20:24) ele

@ele well if Simon want me he can ask me he as free will. I might be French but I think I am not so bad in English. I also have editing software if I need to use it. any way I am always helping when I can. if it is not me it will be someone else. it is not my choice I do not mind to try, yet I would like to know more about what he is expecting. you also have a good night @ele sweet dream.

(Nov 14 '13 at 21:01) whitetiger
showing 5 of 12 show all

The question has been closed for the following reason "No longer relevant" by Simon Templeton Nov 21 '13 at 04:21


Almost anyone can edit past posts or gently remind another user of the NO profanity rule or explain to a new member that IQ has a rule against profanity.

A more conservative member may define profanity different than I would. They may view certain words or terminology or "talk" as obscene while other viewers would not. I don't think anyone needs to go overboard. We aren't the profanity police or IQ militia. Just use good old fashioned common sense & leave your personal prejudices at home.

OTOH, the profanity software scans words, regardless of how they are used. The scanner has NO prejudices - only an agenda. Could humans be as objective or would they view certain remarks or worse, attitudes as negative based on their own personal beliefs & experiences?

For example, look at what happened just now with Wade. His feelings are hurt & he's angry because he viewed my remarks in a way I did NOT intend. He's projecting - thinking I want him to quit. He has his own story going on in his head.

@Wade

"We tend to view things not as they truly are, but in the context of our own personal preconceived notions and prejudices. Our previous experiences will often affect our expectation of future events."

CalonLan made a great point

"Lol, profanity police now, and before you know it there will be people policing negative attitude and remarks. Think there's a difference between cussing and feeling down? Your definitions of borders of spirituality only border your own inability to rise above earthly hogwash and be, indeed, spiritual.

And if each spirit is contained in words we speak as well, how spiritual to limit spirits of others.

Spirits that thought of themselves as better spirits than others tried to make everyone in..

...in their own image. And who can't be remade, will be removed.

Hello there, catholic church, Adolf, Josef, Rome empire and many others I can't remember cause I suck at history lessons.

Well maybe the next year, some of this will finally click in your heads. See you then,..maybe" ~CalonLan (20hrs ago)

Thank you.

ETA

I don't want a personal watch dog or judge. I'll take a much milder version of the current software please.

link

answered Nov 14 '13 at 16:44

ele's gravatar image

ele
65131623

edited Nov 15 '13 at 02:57

Interesting names you picked to make a point and then you end by saying, "leave your personal prejudices at home."

Would you prefer it if Jai and I never were members of IQ?

(Nov 15 '13 at 01:17) Wade Casaldi

Read my edit Wade. It was NOT a personal prejudice. Please look the word prejudice up in the dictionary. I view you & Jai as more conservative members than me or anyone else participating in this convo on Meta. Is that statement NOT correct?

"Would you prefer it if Jai and I never were members of IQ?" Those are YOUR thoughts, NOT mine. I've never said anything like this.

(Nov 15 '13 at 02:41) ele

@ele you see it comes back to what I have said all along it need to start from the inside out. you cannot change things by the outside. every one as free will the profanity scanner does not and cannot make choice of what is reasonable or not. it is only a constraining tool that punish the 99% because of 1 %. that is why I do not agree with it. it is preferable to take care and help the 1% until he see is error and come back to the 99%, some time you have no choice to wall out the 1% because he is totally lost and not ready to come back and prefer to be divided if it is the choice he made-

(Nov 15 '13 at 02:57) whitetiger

@white tiger It's not going to be perfect no matter what. You can't make exceptions for context. Either a word is off limits or it's not. You can use the " f " word with NO malice. Do you think that makes it ok with Simon?

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:05) ele

there is nothing to do then wait for when he will knock at the door ready to come back. until then he is on is path walking in darkness. if you did not intend it that way why is it interpreted that way or did that question not came to you yet? you should reflect on this @ele.

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:06) whitetiger

what f word are you talking about? who did this? was it error on his behalf? did you talk to the person or just assume something and went with the guns barging in? I know some English people that use f word every sentence they are stupefied by something or do not believe their eyes about something, there is no harm to any one. why brings things out of proportion and commit another error that might be even worse.(strain your water for a gnat and swallow a camel.) and I have just prove to you that some use the f word with no malice.

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:17) whitetiger

@white tiger Look at what I wrote again. I have nothing to reflect on. Perhaps I'm the one who deserves an apology for the inane accusations he's continued to fling my way.

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:22) ele

"what f word are you talking about? who did this? was it error on his behalf? did you talk to the person or just assume something and went with the guns barging in?" Are you telling me you have never noticed all the " f " words being hash tagged? There is/was NO mistake. Yes, I did accuse Nik & he denied it & I apologized. As for Snow - he admitted & didn't care.

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:30) ele

if you want to know how the f word is used with out malice here is what they say when they are stupefied about something, f me. well I do not know what you said to him. to have this reaction. probably that you have assume something and it came out wrong. like when you said I add used more then 1 bad word according to the profanity language scanner thing and in fact it was only a 3 letter word the other 2 I ad use ###### on top of the 3 to explain the thing that I did not know the name. yet now you have understand this and that you made error problem is solve.

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:30) whitetiger
1

now you said something to wade or jai or both of them and he is not happy about it. or do you think that sometime you do not make mistake?

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:31) whitetiger

@white tiger I'm DONE talking about this subject with you. If you want to know what I said - click on edited 36 mins ago. It's right there. Then read my answer again. I used Jai & Wade as examples of 2 conservative members of IQ. That is my sin & I have NO plans to apologize or reflect on my words or ask for forgiveness or beg them to stay & I did NOT suggest they leave either. Good Night.

(Nov 15 '13 at 03:39) ele
1

@ele you said:We tend to view things not as they truly are, but in the context of our own personal preconceived notions and prejudices. Our previous experiences will often affect our expectation of future events." also:He has his own story going on in his head. well you also have your own story in your head that is why I told you to reflect. so that you can see things as they really are. and solve the different that you have with wade and that you can both understand each other and solve your problems. it was not about you begging @wade that's your story,

(Nov 15 '13 at 17:32) whitetiger
1

but since you think you are perfect and do not want to see and do not need any body advise it is your choice and you are responsible of it. since you do not want to ear or talk about this with me, I am wasting my time. I am not a divider am I?

(Nov 15 '13 at 17:36) whitetiger
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I do not know why you put this in the first place Simon. but I am happy that you have put it down. communication is always the best way to solve a problem. what often people do not do and jump to the guns. because they are scarred or need to prove something to them self. it is pretty pathetic. first communicate with the person discuses the issue or the lack of understanding find common ground. if it does not work after a fee time. then take other action.

link

answered Nov 13 '13 at 06:47

whitetiger's gravatar image

whitetiger
2956815

I haven't turned anything off. I am looking for volunteers to deal with bad language on the site so that the scanner can be turned off. If no-one volunteers, the scanner stays

(Nov 13 '13 at 06:59) Simon Templeton ♦♦

well Simon we are the volunteers who usely solve problem on iq usely it is the person that answer the question or the person that have ask the question. it is done with communication and usely it solve the problem. I would not mind volunteering but I am going to sleep soon.

(Nov 13 '13 at 07:07) whitetiger

@white tiger .

Please read what @Nikulas wrote

"We've being given the privelidge to participate freely in the website and I feel I'd like to do my best to make the moderators jobs as effotless as possible as an ongoing fair token of thanks."

Do you think you could comply with Simon's simple request? I would appreciate it very much if you would.

Thanks..

http://www.inwardquest.com/questions/81118/should-inward-quest-users-engage-in-profanity

(Nov 13 '13 at 17:01) ele

@ele I know what @nikulas wrote and understand it. yet the 1% that is lost does not know it. should you not be the light that you can be and guide the 1 % that is lost at the place of putting more wall up to cause division? do you want 99% of problem or do you want 1% of problem? if 99 % have no problem is it more easy to help the 1 % or do you want to compromise or sacrifice the 99%. you each have free will of your decision I rest my case. who is with out sin to cast the first stone?

(Nov 13 '13 at 18:49) whitetiger

I am NOT casting stones @white tiger or am I judging you. I don't make the rules here. I'm asking you to please follow the rules so the scanner gets turned offed permanently. You've made more than a couple comments/answers which did NOT pass the profanity scanner. I'm am asking you to please refrain from writing words you know are not acceptable on this forum. Thank you.

(Nov 13 '13 at 19:58) ele

@ele I will follow my own rule that is in accordance to reason and truth. I am not a divider am I. the profanity scanner is a wall that is not perfect why should I put my self under it and be constraint by it? it is not my choice to put this thing up. it is not my choice to seek saw dust in other people eyes. you all have free will and are responsible of it. rule are made to help other if it is not helping it is not serving its purpose. I did not write one word that was not ok in here. if you judge other wise it is your choice and not mine.

(Nov 13 '13 at 20:48) whitetiger

"I did not write one word that was not ok in here." Do you want to list all the words which you used on IQ which were hash tagged? Just because you think a word is ok to say on IQ, does not make it so. If you don't wish to comply we will be stuck with the software.

(Nov 13 '13 at 21:18) ele

@white tiger How about this - I think you strength lies is your ability to step up & speak up & I think you would make an awesome mod/volunteer. You won't be afraid to let other members know they are violating site rules. This is where your talent lies & I'm sure you will be very good at it. English is not your first language. Other members can take care of editing if necessary. Bill said you made a derogatory comment about me. Did I miss something? I didn't see it? Are you upset with me for some reason?

(Nov 13 '13 at 21:45) ele

@ele I will tell you something the hash tag I have done my self to explain.so there was only 1 that I have stated my self. so why do you say to me: Do you want to list all the words which you used on IQ which were hash tagged? Just because you think a word is ok to say on IQ, does not make it so. If you don't wish to comply we will be stuck with the software. do you want to make me feel guilty also? because you strain your water to remove a gnat and swallow a camel. who is causing this division? if I tell you the truth and you believe me not should I be guilty of it?

(Nov 13 '13 at 22:41) whitetiger

@white tiger so you are saying you kept saying the same word over and over again. Got it. Thank you.

(Nov 13 '13 at 22:55) ele

If you still do not trust me and do not listen to me when I tell you the truth, that I be a mod/volunteer will it change anything. or do you think that having title, being well dress as the rich and ruler of this world is the only thing important. then my word have no place in you by your own choice. I speak to you and you believe me not. will you also blame me for this? or maybe you want to do like @ Vesuvius and not listen thinking that I speak to a straw man. If my word as no value that you give me a title will not change anything. now did you see it.

(Nov 13 '13 at 22:56) whitetiger

Where is this coming from? Did I say anything about trust? I'm trying to listen to you. Did I not understand you once again? What is the one word you kept using - it's ok to write it on Meta. Why aren't you sleeping?I thought you needed your rest.

(Nov 13 '13 at 23:03) ele

I have always done my part on iq for a fee years some of you have listen to me. I do not mind helping any of you when I can. the problem is not being a mod or not being one if you respect the person with title or with out title you will still respect the person. and no @ele you did not got it like you said in the message you just sent me. I said the word once and the other hash tag I made with the same symbol on the keyboard to explain this ############# it is right on the top of the 3 on the key board. why bring things out of proportion?

(Nov 13 '13 at 23:04) whitetiger

@ele to answer your new question. if you would trust me you would know that I am telling you the truth. since you believe me not and bring things out of proportion I think that we could call that not trusting don't you? as for my rest yes I will have it when I choose to do so. do you have a issue with me answering your question? do you find this surprising that I can answer your own question better then you or tell you things that did not touch your mind or heart yet?

(Nov 13 '13 at 23:29) whitetiger

@ele it is strange that you are not talking to me any more. I know that you have a good heart sometime miss placed. I still like you even if you are hurting right now. did you have enough time to calm down?

(Nov 14 '13 at 01:29) whitetiger

@white tiger Please point out where you viewed me as anything other than calm? I stopped talking because you refused to listen & you're make assumptions which are not accurate & no matter what I say, I can't convince you to see it any other way. I made a very simple request & you made it in to a huge drama. All you had to do is say yes or no. That was it.

(Nov 14 '13 at 02:12) ele

@ele I always listen and I do not make any assomptions the fact is that you do not want to see so you prefer to say that I made a huge drama. and that makes you mad so you did not reply anything more for a while after the message that you add sent me. well it is the way it is your choice not mine. that I say yes or no does not change that what I said is true. that is what you said: so you are saying you kept saying the same word over and over again. Got it. Thank you. and no you did not get anything at that point and you where mad.

(Nov 14 '13 at 02:47) whitetiger
1

@white tiger I am NOT mad at you & I haven't been mad at you. Those are your thoughts NOT mine.

(Nov 14 '13 at 03:16) ele
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I think for the most part it is a minor inconvenience to keep the site from Nanny Software black lists, or Google safe search list. It would be a royal shame for IQ to be blacklisted as a bad site.

If we think of it 99% of the posts are good information 1% is swear. This to me seems a strange discussion for spiritual people. I can't imagine the Christ and the Buddha having a conversation about being upset that they can't swear. If it upsets or offends someone I believe they would think twice before saying it or it wouldn't even come to mind to say.

link

answered Nov 13 '13 at 11:10

Wade%20Casaldi's gravatar image

Wade Casaldi
414141720

what is the 1% that is swear? I did not see it. should you not then leave the 99% alone and take care of the 1 % since he is the one that need your help most. The (Father's) kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine.'"

(Nov 13 '13 at 15:09) whitetiger

when you get lost and are divided and seek division pass to the left hand and see your error are you not happy when you find yourself again and come back to the right hand the father? and he welcome you and prepare a fest for you?

(Nov 13 '13 at 15:31) whitetiger

I was speaking of percentage of text not percentage of people. Very small percent of text is anything of swearing.

(Nov 13 '13 at 15:31) Wade Casaldi

@Wade So are you saying you are in favor of keeping the profanity software active? You don't want Simon to turn it off?

(Nov 13 '13 at 16:34) ele

@wade Casaldi I have ear and understand you, but you did not understand me. does the text come by it self? or is it the one that write the text that is the 1 %. yes some divide them self and get lost when they learn from their mistake will they commit the same mistake again? or do they know better? why cause more division and problem to the 99% that are not lost. does not the father know when the I% is lost does he not know and make a fest and is happy when the son learn better and solve is division and find is way home. why do you want to build wall again?

(Nov 13 '13 at 18:39) whitetiger
1

Yes I am with Simon on this. I was a former moderator on my Yahoo groups. I know what a pain it can be policing my site and keeping it a place that is welcoming and friendly to all that come visit and those that are members.

I had to break up fights and make peace, sometimes I had to even dismiss members. That was the worst part, so I do know the pressure on Simon. In fact unfortunately it burned me out. I couldn't do it anymore. Hashing is a minor inconvenience mostly. I know sometimes it gets in the way like Dick Dale and the Deltones or David Icki. It keeps our site welcoming. I support it

(Nov 13 '13 at 23:03) Wade Casaldi

@Wade Your Yes, is NOT clear. What are you agreeing with. I asked you a simple question. Are you saying yes, I would like the software to remain or are you agreeing with Simon's post? Thank you.

(Nov 14 '13 at 14:06) ele
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